Emily Lane, Bret Schnitker
March 3, 2022
Emily Lane 00:10
Welcome to Clothing Coulture. I'm Emily Lane.
Bret Schnitker 00:13
I'm Bret Schnitker
Emily Lane 00:14
We speak with experts where we explore the global dynamics that shape trends in the fashion industry,
Bret Schnitker 00:20
brought to you by Stars Design Group, a global production and design house with over 30 years of industry experience.
Emily Lane 00:35
Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture. Today, we are going to be talking about something that is near and dear to my heart. So important in any industry, but absolutely in the apparel industry, marketing.
Bret Schnitker 00:50
but I'm excited because I get to ask the question, because I really don't have the answer. That's the fun part.
Question copy will go here.
Emily Lane 00:56
Well, you know, I think marketing is always important. But I think in this time where consumer behaviors are dynamically changing. We've had a lot of people in the industry very invested in brick and mortar and are trying to find new ways to reach their audience moving to more online environment. This is becoming a greater challenge, how to break through the noise and just how to stay relevant. So I think that this is a good subject we’re talking about today.
Bret Schnitker 01:05
You've summed it all up, I don't need to ask any questions. You know, in hanging with you, and going through all of these things that you've mentioned, personally, for Stars Design Group, I've been amazed. I've been in the industry for a long time in the apparel industry, and a lot of things that I think are just easy, because I've done it so much. It's an interesting take to look through your lens and understand the aspects of marketing, and it just seems to be moving to rocket science. I remember years ago, someone wanted me to get into the printing business and I was like, there's no way. I do all my decisions on my iPhone or my iPad, why would I want to be in the printing business? So, you just see this evolution that's occurred in the printing business. Is there a future in the printing business with so much noise online? Are you seeing anything happening in that regard?
Emily Lane 02:26
In printing? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I think that people remain tactile. The apparel industry, it's a tactical business, and I think the same thing is happening in the world of marketing. I do think that people enjoy getting these gorgeous catalogs on beautiful paper with gorgeous imageries sent to their doors, and it gives people a way to connect with their audience and tell a story.
Bret Schnitker 02:58
That one of the things I've seen change. It used to be printed on toilet paper rags and you’d barely be able to hold it together. Nowadays, they look like something you'd put on your coffee table, or whatever. I mean, it's kind of amazing. I think taking a break from the electronics and being able to look back and tactically turn some pretty paper and look at great images. You know, ultimately, I guess we go online and order in any way. That's the evolution, but it's kind of wild. So, let's talk about how does one get through all the noise? Because everyone wants to know the answer to that, right?
Emily Lane 03:35
Yeah, and I want to maybe transition that conversation from this whole topic of printing, because I think that the same principles apply. No matter if we're talking printing, if we're talking digital, no matter what the format is,
Bret Schnitker 03:50
The printing space has dried up. You don't get junk mail anymore. When you move to an online environment, you're bombarded. How does one weed through decisions on what engine to market on? And how do you get visibility?
Emily Lane 04:08
I think regardless of the format in which you're marketing, it really comes down to your message and authenticity. You know, authenticity is on the rise, hallelujah. People want to really connect with a brand that they're getting engaged with. If they're buying product or they're following, they want to know that the values are aligned, and that they're telling a story that's true. We're not just throwing a sustainable message out there, but it's really an empty message.
Bret Schnitker 04:42
So Mad Men is dead.
Emily Lane 04:46
Yeah, the marketing world isn't as sexy as martinis in the afternoon and coming up with the next great bright idea. Bright ideas might get you a like on Instagram, but that's about it. You know, it's very important to connect with your audience in a real, true, authentic way. Make sure that you're consistent with that messaging. Whether you're printing a catalogue and sending it to your client base, or you're putting images out there on social media, or you're doing some sort of email campaign. You need to make sure that the message that you're delivering really connects with your audience. That's how you break through the noise. Everybody's getting the Black Friday deals,
Bret Schnitker 05:41
Junk mail via Spam.
Emily Lane 05:44
Yeah, so staying true to who you are, and really taking the time to map that out. I think that a common problem that brands and new companies face is they know what the product is they want to deliver, but they don't take the time to really explore how they're different in the market. What makes them unique? What is their DNA? What are the 10 words that really sum up their values? What are the words that really sum up their product? The difference is taking the time to really dive into your mission and value statements and who your audience is. Putting that to words, and then embracing that in all of your efforts moving forward is absolutely essential in crafting an authentic marketing strategy.
Bret Schnitker 06:44
So, we've seen this ability online to deal directly to consumer. We're talking about this multi-channel approach where, in the old days, you take big advertisements out the newspaper. I'm old, so I can talk about those days. It would cost a ton of money to establish brand equity. Therefore, there weren't a ton of brands in the industry. Today, we're seeing this flourish of boutique brands. We've talked about it a couple times, because they feel like they have this direct access to the consumer. And you've talked about this authenticity of message, etc. So, you have the authentic message, you have this great kind of niche that you feel like is existing in the business. How and what choices to make with other people that have that same kind of deal? How do you get through the competition? What platform without plugging particular platforms? I mean, is it that you post it and they will come? You end up being page 1,500 of all these relevant stories. What’s some advice that you can give, or prepare people for, as they kind of weighed down this road with this authentic message?
Emily Lane 07:54
You need to have realistic expectations about the fact that this is not an overnight thing, that there isn't that one genius who has that magic line. And boy, you run that one campaign in the newspaper once and everybody's going to come running to you. It's just like in the garment business, just because you build a beautiful dress, doesn't mean all the people are going to come storming in to buy that dress. I certainly wouldn't, but the same philosophy applies. I mean, you have to understand that it takes testing.
Bret Schnitker 08:31
What do you mean testing?
Emily Lane 08:32
So, putting an ad out there alone isn't enough to convert. So you really need a process of testing multiple messages,
Bret Schnitker 08:47
Is this the AB testing thing you throw out? I like to sound intelligence sometimes. So, I'm going to throw out marketing phrases when you give them to me.
Emily Lane 08:55
AB split testing is really interesting. It's actually been a process that's been in place for well over 100 years. It's brilliant marketing. Now, the internet wasn’t around that long. It was before the internet. It actually started out in newspaper, as a call back to your statement earlier. Claude Hopkins, the creator, the writer of scientific advertising, learned that he could use advertising and the AB split testing method. It was a much longer slower approach in the days of newspaper, but he would take an ad and test it week after week to see how the results varied.
Bret Schnitker 09:36
Wanted: Jesse James 5,000, nothing happened. Raised it to 10, and the guy’s found.
Emily Lane 09:41
Found, right. Usually it was more coupons. It was coupons. So, take for example a soap company. He'd run an ad that would be buy this soap, it'll make your skin feel soft and smooth. Then the ladies who would buy this soap would come and bring their coupon. Then they'd run another ad that would say, buy this soap and I'll make your skin glow and shine. So, you would test different messages, use different images, and they would measure those results. How many coupons came back with this code versus that code and from that, refined their message.
Bret Schnitker 10:19
I really want to glow and smooth, and that wasn't one of your choices.
Emily Lane 10:21
Well, you just keep refining that message. The truth of it is, AB split testing isn't that we test these two things and then we're done. We'd get the one that gets the greatest response and then we stay there and rerun with that. We take the one that was more successful, and then we divide that out and test yet other images and other taglines and other price points and just keep constantly tweaking on those to get to improve your results. And you know, consumer behavior changes on an ongoing basis. One message that would-
Bret Schnitker 11:01
Are you saying we're fickle?
Emily Lane 11:02
Yes, a little bit. A message that works one week isn't going to necessarily work the next. Likewise, a message isn't going to work in one part of the country, in the same way that it will in another. It is an ongoing testing process. And like you said, it's a science, you're constantly measuring the results of what you're doing.
Bret Schnitker 11:23
So, let's talk about support functions. It's kind of near and dear to our hearts lately. We started to get involved a little bit in this influencer marketing. Tell the crowds out there, I'm sure there's crowds at this point. This is our what fourth episode? The crowds of four, tell them a little bit about how influencers can make a difference in this whole process that you're talking about in marketing, you know, in my day, it was kind of like rock and roll singers and movie stars, but it's way different today,
Emily Lane 11:58
It is. Influencers are the celebrity of advertising these days. It's true. I think that that harkens back to a point that we were talking about earlier: authenticity. Influencers have their audiences, they've connected, they have relationships with their audience. They build their followings by staying consistent in their message. They know who they are, and the things that they're advocating for, and the look and aesthetic of their brand. They are indeed a brand. I think that by being consistent and being authentic with their audience, they build that loyalty. Well, now if you can bring that audience base into your business, it just gives you the opportunity to kind of reach a whole new audience in a fresh way. But you've got to make sure if you are aligning yourself with an influencer, that you are selecting somebody that has a similar voice to yours and that the message is indeed, again, authentic. There are some campaigns that have happened out there where we've got an influencer that's got a huge following. Million plus followers typically gets really good engagement, over 5%. Sometimes you see 10, sometimes you see 15%. That's extraordinary. You should be taking a look when you're going to be engaging an influencer app, their engagement rates, and so forth.
Bret Schnitker 13:41
What's an engagement rate? What does that mean? How times they're looking to get married before they do or-
Emily Lane 13:43
Engagement is if an influencer puts a post out, how many people are actually liking and commenting on that. You want to kind of track that over a series of posts and over recent dynamic because things change, people fall in and out of favor, and people make silly decisions. Sometimes that can compromise their audience or the loyalty of their audience. They should be always, when you're looking at them, reviewing that. It's pretty amazing when you look at campaigns that have worked really well versus ones that haven't. There's a campaign that was done for a certain mouthwash company,
Bret Schnitker 14:33
Which will remain nameless until they give us sponsorship.
Emily Lane 14:37
Exactly, and pairing this influencer that, again, on paper looked great, but this influencer had no experience,
Bret Schnitker 14:47
No teeth probably
Emily Lane 14:49
That would be a problem.
Bret Schnitker 14:49
That your influencer
Emily Lane 14:54
-was in a completely different space known for a completely different type of product. Her community was outraged because it seemed very inauthentic and off brand for her to be talking about fresh breath and she's a makeup or beauty. You know, or actually it was fashion oriented.
Bret Schnitker 15:14
and most of us embrace bad breath and fashion. So we're furious when there's mouthwash involved
Emily Lane 15:20
what's interesting is that she actually got death threats.
Bret Schnitker 15:24
Wow
Emily Lane 15:25
Isn't that astounding? People are, you know,
Bret Schnitker 15:28
we live in a crazy world.
Emily Lane 15:29
Absolutely. So, meanwhile, there's other campaigns where you have that right partnership. There's Macy's, Nordstrom, all these various companies that have had successful collaborations with influencers
Bret Schnitker 15:44
which they're not sponsoring us, and you help them
Question copy will go here.
Emily Lane 15:46
Well, it's something to admire the success of these campaigns, and they'll do a collaboration, you know, 8, 10 styles. Those collections will nearly blow through overnight, if not with even in a couple of weeks. Well, that is a retailer's dream. So, finding the right influencer that is on brand, you share values. An influencer that has a clear viewpoint is really, really important. I think it is a really exciting marketing strategy, and one that is not going away anytime soon. If anything, we're at the early stages of influencer marketing,
Bret Schnitker 16:25
Interesting. So, let's take a step back and let's talk about when we talk to different, burgeoning brands, right, this whole boutique brand economy. We talked about the importance of brand storage, up to your point, the authenticity toward the brand, how important it is today, and the stage at which they achieve brand equity, right? People want to be part of their club, therefore, kind of embrace their brand or logo-ing or whatever, on their garments. I can see these initial steps, and we've kind of just touched the surface on the science of marketing and engagement, etc. So, they've gone down some of these paths, they've started to develop this community, they've got this whole brand equity growing. What's a way to build community within their brand? How do they, once they've started to get traction kind of like us, we're hoping for five people. As we're building this whole community, or a brand is building this whole community, what are some marketing things to do when we're dealing with kind of an online space? Or maybe not an online space, an overall market? How to build community?
Emily Lane 17:35
I think any company out there in today's climate needs to make sure their marketing infrastructure is in place. First, you were talking about versioning brands and brands that are pre equity, and then how do we get that equity? Well, you've got to get a strong foundation in place to even get there. Everybody has our website, we know this, yeah. But beyond a website, there are fundamentals to making a website really, truly work for you. A website isn't just a brochure, it is actually a selling tool for you. Not just a selling tool, but a community building tool, as well. So, in order to make sure that that works the right way for you, you need some basics in place. You need a website that has at least five pages of content and of content isn't just photos. Google can't see photos. It doesn't look at a photo and go, Oh, this is a really beautiful dress made of this fabric and it looks really fashionable, and people are going to want it. You have to actually have the text that says, “This is really fashionable, and people want it.” You need content, you need 300 to 300 words on each page. That's just a starting place for Google to even say, this exists. Otherwise, you're not even on Google's radar.
Bret Schnitker 19:02
It's makes a ton of sense. I could only afford four and a half pages and then you show up and I've got more than that
Emily Lane 19:09
now you can't even process
Bret Schnitker 19:11
-beat them back from the door.
Emily Lane 19:14
So, you know, fundamentals that a website that has content has pages. You need actual customized SEO,
Bret Schnitker 19:24
What does SEO mean?
Emily Lane 19:25
I know, it is one of those-
Bret Schnitker 19:26
I’ve heard of CEO, CCO, COO. What is SEO?
Emily Lane 19:35
SEO search
Bret Schnitker 19:36
Super excited object or what?
Emily Lane 19:39
Search Engine Optimization. It is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot and people really don't-
There's different explanations for it but basically, it's the process of making sure that Google can find your website when somebody is actually searching for what you offer, and there are ways to improve your chances at making sure Google recognizes that you're there. Very basic things are customized, page titles and meta descriptions. So, your page title is, you know, everybody has the “About Us” page, the home page. Well, you need to go beyond in the description of that page, which is when you're looking at your website. In the very, very top of the screen, you'll see at Stars Design Group forward slash home. That title up there, you have so much potential to add into that. Clothing Coulture, a podcast about the global dynamics that shaped trends in the fashion industry
Bret Schnitker 19:41
Okay. Sounds like a fascinating podcast.
Emily Lane 20:50
So, you customize those page titles to really tell Google what they're going to find on that page. Very important. It's kind of like sending up little flags to Google to say, hey, if somebody types this in, we're here, we're here, send them here. So that's important.
Bret Schnitker 21:08
And you said meta
Emily Lane 21:09
Meta description, are when Google decides that you're worthy of that search, and puts your name up into the queue,
Bret Schnitker 21:17
oh, honorable Google.
Emily Lane 21:20
And you see about you right there. It gives you the option of the company. You'll see the titles, Stars Design Group, and then below it, there'll be a description. That description is the meta description. Often, companies make the mistake of not customizing that and not making sure that it matches the page that follows. Common mistake. Because what happens is, if somebody is like, Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I googled. Then, they click that link and it goes to a page and that information isn't there in that manner and people get confused. They go back, Google makes note of that. It actually says, okay, well, that didn't work for that person. So next time somebody searches that information, I'm going to be less likely to pull it up in the queue.
Bret Schnitker 22:12
So, my mistake was four and a half pages and have zero meta information at all. That's a problem.
Emily Lane 22:17
That is a problem. There are other things that improve your SEO. So, having new content added onto your website regularly is very important because every time you add new content, Google's like, what's this? I’ve got to reread it and I don't just have to read that, I got to make sure I didn't miss anything. So, it rereads your entire website, making it more relevant in the Google's mind,
Bret Schnitker 22:47
how important is to be on page one?
Emily Lane 22:50
I mean, it certainly doesn't hurt does it.
Bret Schnitker 22:54
No. I've always said that
Emily Lane 22:56
No, it can be hard. It can be really hard,
Bret Schnitker 23:01
I guess, on page one with one definition of a search.
Emily Lane 23:05
This is why really getting good content out there, so that way, it's less of a question on being page one when somebody is searching something. If I was just going to search podcast, that's going to look at all of the various podcasts that are out there.
Bret Schnitker 23:26
But if you search best podcast-
Emily Lane 23:29
-about fashion, clothing, the making. Then I put that information on my website, and I make sure the titles have that information. It's going to align with the search. That happens, realistically, more often than not. So that's why being very specific and having regular content is really important when it comes to engaging your community and building your community. Like you talked about, making sure that you have a good conversion system set up on your website,
Bret Schnitker 24:05
annoying thing that pops up the mix, you put your email in.
Emily Lane 24:08
That's one way to go about it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a challenge
Bret Schnitker 24:13
To get your email in? Yeah, for me it is. I just want to get to the content. I keep hitting the x that keeps popping.
Emily Lane 24:19
But you do want that discount, don't you? That's the challenge. So, you have to be more clever than ever to convince people to give up their web and their email addresses, because everybody gets 100 200 spam emails a day.
Bret Schnitker 24:39
I mean, the width to 300 spam emails a day. Does anybody really recall of those that come in? Is it worth it?
Emily Lane 24:46
I mean, don't you read the ones you really want to read? I can tell you-
Bret Schnitker 24:51
Intentionally, I don’t. It's like a violent act against spam.
Emily Lane 24:55
I probably delete 99% of the emails that come through. However, there are a couple that I look forward to.
Bret Schnitker 25:04
Emily reads her spam. So anybody out there that wants to market to her, I'll give you her email. After that, you have to wait till the very end, you have to sign up, and we'll give you a discount to the podcast or something. It's already free.
Emily Lane 25:21
I think it's really important to be very caring, smart, authentic, clever, all of those things. And I know it can feel a bit like, I don't know. I know, people have this icky feeling towards words like conversion, consumer, audience, and sale. These are words that make people kind of cringe. In building community, you want to make sure that you're delivering something of value that makes them feel good about giving up their email address. It could be the behind the scenes of the podcast video, it could be here's top five trips, tips on starting your own podcast. Whatever it is, give value. My goodness, if you are going to be one of those marketers, or companies that’s sending out emails, make sure it's one that people look forward to, because I might delete 99% of those. But boy, there's a few that I read every time they come through, because I know I'm going to like the content. So that's really important. Stay connected in the right way by delivering value.
Bret Schnitker 26:41
Interesting. So, I know nothing about marketing of the subject. I really don't even know the questions that I’m asking you. Honestly, I think a good route way to round this out is; is there something I'm missing? Is there something that you believe is something important for the four people that are listening to us today, to take away about marketing that I haven't brought up yet?
Emily Lane 27:04
I think we've really hit some of those core basics. You've got to have your infrastructure in place. Make sure you really have clarity on your brand and the voice of your brand and messaging. Be consistent, stay real, these are all important things. There's always going to be new ways to market that things are ever evolving. We went from newspapers, to TV, to now this online space. So, making sure that your take taking a look at the trends you know we're seeing. Tik Tok has come in and out of the conversations recently, especially in the fashion industry. Always kind of exploring what's going to be around the corner and making sure that you're taking time to learn and AB test in those. And those new of new opportunities and see what works for you and measure the results. Don't just spend money, doing some advertising without really taking a look at the metrics of it all because within those numbers, you can make better decisions about where to where to focus those marketing dollars.
Bret Schnitker 28:14
I hope in future episodes, we can talk about some of the technologies I've heard of that really understand RFID and some of the others as they invade our daily lives and get us to buy more stuff. But thanks a lot for spending the time
Emily Lane 28:29
it's fun to be in the hot seat.
Bret Schnitker 28:30
Yeah.
Emily Lane 28:34
Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. We'd offer some consulting in the marketing in the apparel space and we'd love to answer any questions that you have. We look forward to having more conversations with you in upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture.
